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Post by Jennifer Todd on May 26, 2016 1:18:45 GMT
I definitely agree that including and engaging a student's "outside" discourse should be a priority in the classroom but it does provide challenges. My background is in elementary education and most of the content is driven by the curriculum, which focused on a white, middle class discourse. It takes significant time and energy to look beyond that curriculum and expand the educational experience and engage all of what the students have to offer. However, I think that is the job most of us are signing up for.
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Post by rachelmartin1 on May 26, 2016 2:00:48 GMT
I was thinking about what Taylor and J wrote in their posts about having tension between two discourses, and I am having a hard time thinking of an example in my life (although I am sure there is one somewhere). What kept popping up in my mind was how different this class is from my other graduate classes and even undergraduate classes. I majored in Psychology and am currently studying School Psychology, so literacy practices and lesson plans are so foreign to me. I think this experience is reflected in what Gee was talking about in this reading. He mentioned that we gain insight or meta-knowledge when we come across a situation in which we are unable to accommodate or adapt. In this case, there is an advantage to being maladapted. He mentioned how this applied to minority students who enter a mainstream Discourse later in the game, but I feel like this applies to my situation. However, I don't feel like I am at an advantage over the other students who are studying to be teachers. I find everything we are learning so engaging and interesting but I feel like it takes longer for me to understand the material and I am still behind the other students. This is obviously a different situation than children in the classroom who find themselves as a minority, but perhaps it allows me to emphasize with them a little bit.
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Post by lsantana36 on May 26, 2016 4:40:51 GMT
I have a general question. When reading about someone having conflicting discourses I couldn't help but be a little confused. How does tension even occur between a person's discourses? It just seems so contradictory, not that people can't be contradictory, but it seems that many discourses are acquired by choice. So how can someone choose to partake in two discourses that are contradictory to one another? Maybe I'm not grasping the entire idea, but I cant seem to think that anyone would choose to do/say something in one discourse of their life and then turn around and do/say the exact opposite in another discourse. But then I think about those people who live completely double lives and they're an avid church goer in one life and a complete rule breaker in the other, so I guess it is possible, buy why!?!? Ughhhhh super confused.   Lol |
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Post by jamestgardiner on May 26, 2016 11:51:36 GMT
I have a general question. When reading about someone having conflicting discourses I couldn't help but be a little confused. How does tension even occur between a person's discourses? I think that are certain discourses we don't necessarily choose to be in. Although most discourses I am a part of I want to be a a part of, there are some that I do not. For example, I don't necessarily want to be a part of the academic discourse I am in. At times it calls me to shift from my primary discourse, which is uncomfortable for me. The discourse asks me to do and say things in a certain way, and I feel like this limits me. Although I know it is necessary for me to get the education I am seeking, I feel the tension of it between it and my primary discourse. I am also thinking it is possible for people to be born into a primary discourse that they do not like. Maybe as they get older they change. So, they want to leave behind their old discourse for a secondary discourse they have acquired. I'm sure there are other examples. But, I also do think that most of the secondary discourses I have acquired I chose to master and I enjoy them. I hope this helps. |
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Post by ariellegetz on May 26, 2016 12:02:04 GMT
I am also having a hard time with tension between discourses. The only example I can think of is when I moved from Louisiana to Kansas. In Louisiana I lived and went to school on a military base but in Kansas we lived off-base in a very tight-knit community. The discourses I had acquired in Louisiana, and my Primary discourse, in no way fit in with the lifestyle of Leavenworth, Kansas. I was used to a constantly changing classroom and neighborhood, always having new neighbors and new students. In Kansas, nobody was new, except for me, and I was an "outsider," immediately. I didn't live in Kansas longer than a year so I would say my discourse there was a "mushfake discourse." I simply made do and adapted as best I could to a farming community until I moved.
I think that, while maybe most discourses are acquired by choice, tension occurs because there are aspects of discourses that make "insider-ness" difficult to obtain. In my ESL class an example that always gets brought up is how diversity affects a classroom. Western culture places a large emphasis on eye contact, it can show a persons interest, or lack of, in a conversation. However, in some Asian cultures direct eye contact can be seen as a sign of disrespect. An asian student can be apart of the academic discourse yet still have conflicts with his or her Primary discourse when having a conference with a professor. I'm not sure if I'm fully grasping the concept of tensions within discourses, so if this example isn't quite getting there please help lol.
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Post by Angelica on May 26, 2016 19:45:51 GMT
I have a general question. When reading about someone having conflicting discourses I couldn't help but be a little confused. How does tension even occur between a person's discourses? It just seems so contradictory, not that people can't be contradictory, but it seems that many discourses are acquired by choice. So how can someone choose to partake in two discourses that are contradictory to one another? I think that's an awesome question! I've had some form of this discussion with my friends who were born and raised in the same place their entire life. I was born in the Philippines. When I was six years old, my family moved to Chicago, IL, when I was twelve Jacksonville, FL, and then finally Tallahassee for college. It seems like I've had to navigate different cultural, regional, and even academic Discourses my entire life. I'm thankful that my parents really supported us and showed us how to acclimate and adapt with each move but it wasn't always easy especially when the way they raised us seemed to be very different from the way my peers were brought up. I became aware of different racial Discourses early in my life when I would go over to the houses of my white, black, hispanic, and even other asian/filipino friends or when they would come over mine. I was a really curious kid so I would observe how they talk to their parents, what they would eat for dinner, what their houses looked like, what they did for fun, and how loud/quiet their homes would be. I was a big people-pleaser as a kid so I would make sure that I would take my friends' cues. This followed me into high-school, when I began to be really irritated with cliques. The reason I would participate in contradictory discourses was because I wanted to be friends with all different kinds of people. I liked the nerdy kids just as much as I liked the athletes and the drama/ chorus kids. Now that I'm growing into adulthood, I can't stand identity politics because sometimes I still struggle with pinning down my own identity and I secretly wish everyone could just get along. I've really enjoyed college because I've gotten to meet people from all different walks of life who are still trying to figure out their own Discourses, both personally and professionally. Also, I've worked in customer service jobs and dealing with all kinds of people is really eye-opening. In some ways, I've been "mushfaking" it my entire life because of all the moves and different kinds of people I've had to live and deal with. As a future teacher, I hope that I will be able to identify students who may be using a mushfake Discourse in my classroom and equip them with enough confidence and real knowledge skills so they can acquire more fluency in a particular Discourse. I really liked our class today because it made me think of all these things. Aaron asked, "I want to make room for students to use their "outside" perspective to their advantage in the classroom. I am curious to know how the rest of you guys will handle the difference between your discourse and that of your students. What strategies will you use?" This is ultimately my question too. I am trying to think of all the ways other people have supported me when I was using a mushfake Discourse and hope to help others in the same way. Typically, my favorite teachers were the ones who gave a lot of constructive and specific feedback, the teachers who got to know me enough to recognize my strengths and weaknesses and helped me develop them, who didn't make me feel stupid or inadequate by talking down to me, who shared their strategies for how they became masters, and also the teachers who kept reminding me that making mistakes was okay and almost necessary to become truly good at something. Have a great weekend guys! |
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Post by jessicadiazr on May 26, 2016 22:09:38 GMT
I have a general question. When reading about someone having conflicting discourses I couldn't help but be a little confused. How does tension even occur between a person's discourses? I think that are certain discourses we don't necessarily choose to be in. Although most discourses I am a part of I want to be a a part of, there are some that I do not. For example, I don't necessarily want to be a part of the academic discourse I am in. At times it calls me to shift from my primary discourse, which is uncomfortable for me. The discourse asks me to do and say things in a certain way, and I feel like this limits me. Although I know it is necessary for me to get the education I am seeking, I feel the tension of it between it and my primary discourse. I am also thinking it is possible for people to be born into a primary discourse that they do not like. Maybe as they get older they change. So, they want to leave behind their old discourse for a secondary discourse they have acquired. I'm sure there are other examples. But, I also do think that most of the secondary discourses I have acquired I chose to master and I enjoy them. I hope this helps. I agree with J. I am a first-generation Hispanic immigrant so my primary discourse is the Hispanic culture and one of my secondary discourses is the American culture. I didn't necessarily chose to be in the American discourse. Like J said, it calls for me to shift from my primary discourse making me feel a little uncomfortable, especially because I don't feel like I have "mastered" the American culture discourse. It also makes me feel limited. For example, I was having trouble understanding "mushfake" but when Dr. Boggs explained the difference between "saber" and "concocer" the term began to click in my head. Although I am completely fine with having a secondary discourse of American culture, there is still a certain tension between the two. Also, going off of J's other example, my friend was also born in to the primary discourse of a Hispanic culture. However, unlike me, he doesn't really identify with it. As we were growing up, how he "left behind" his old discourse for the secondary discourse of American culture. |
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linda
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Post by linda on May 27, 2016 12:48:45 GMT
Maybe our discourses are not so much something to 'cross over' into or change but are layered parts, each discourse bringing different pieces to the current one we are using? I feel like the discourses we belong to or identify with are not something we are able to fully control, especially our primary one, which then affects all of our subsequent discourses.
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Post by carolinebyrnes on May 28, 2016 12:36:55 GMT
Here is a place to discuss reading 6
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Post by Jennifer Todd on May 28, 2016 15:43:12 GMT
Hey guys! So this has nothing to do with our readings this week but I watched a pretty cool TED Talk for another class of mine and I thought I'd share it. I really liked how he discusses the goal of school is not necessarily knowledge acquisition, but more of how to participate in thinking, learning, problem-solving, etc. To me, it seemed like actually applying literacy practices to drive instruction. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX9vgD7iTqw |
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Post by lsantana36 on May 28, 2016 21:41:17 GMT
Hey guys! So this has nothing to do with our readings this week but I watched a pretty cool TED Talk for another class of mine and I thought I'd share it. I really liked how he discusses the goal of school is not necessarily knowledge acquisition, but more of how to participate in thinking, learning, problem-solving, etc. To me, it seemed like actually applying literacy practices to drive instruction. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX9vgD7iTqw I really like the idea of us sharing ted talks/videos!! This one I have here is another one that isn't related to reading #6, but if you're a prospective teacher I highly advise you to watch this video by Sir Ken Robinson! It speaks about educational paradigms and how to change them one teacher at a time! Its a real eye opener for those teachers that want to make a change in students lives!  www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U |
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Post by tom56omara on May 30, 2016 21:54:02 GMT
From reading the posts I think the overall question here is, "does age matter when becoming a part of a discourse?" If you read each others posts you will find that many of our classmates are involved in discourses that they don't necessarily like. I think age is a big factor when choosing to be part of a discourse even though you would rather not be a part of it. College is a huge incentive to join new discourses because even though we have a subject that we major in, doesn't mean we don't take a class that is a little bit out of our field. as a social studies education major I can honestly say that I am not big on politics, but my degree requires me to teach it sometimes. What is forcing me to learn about politics and what is forcing a 5th grader to learn simple algebra. College, career paths, salary is forcing me to learn politics so I can be good at my job and live a successful life. However, most children don't think like this. They don't have an incentive to learn. I think the children that do well in school are the ones who have a disciplinary incentive (they are disciplined if they do bad). or they are rewarded if they do good..
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Post by rachelmartin1 on May 31, 2016 0:23:55 GMT
Thank you Jennifer for sharing that TED Talk! I found it interesting and extremely eye-opening. We expect a lot of the students in our education system and want them to fit the prescribed mold of a traditional classroom. Like Brian said, there is nothing wrong with the traditional classroom, however it is a wonderful idea to include other avenues of participation for students like James who feel like school is not for them. I can't visualize what the other three methods that Brian offered during the talk would look like, but I think they are worthy of being explored. I feel that we as individuals who have influence over the education system should be flexible in rethinking the path to participation for students who tend to fall through the cracks.
I also like what Brian said about the test of any school system is its relationship to the most vulnerable student. As teachers and school psychologists, our goal is to provide and aid in the provision of differentiated instruction. When creating an Individualized Education Program, we have to make sure we are creating goals for the student that are specific their individual needs. So it only makes sense that we would look at each child individually and determine if the avenue of participation works for them. Watching this video inspired me in my own path as a school psychologist to provide for those students who are vulnerable and might fall through the cracks. It is a big task to shift the focus from acquiring knowledge that we will eventually forget (Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader example) and enable students to problem-solve and think in a way that is relevant to them. However, if we can include more students and help the most vulnerable by switching the path to participation, then it would be totally worth it.
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Post by jamestgardiner on May 31, 2016 12:20:53 GMT
I really like that TED talk! I also like the idea of us sharing TED talks and other things regarding out learning. I think that might be a beneficial way for us to learn from each other and different perspectives of professions.
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Post by carolinebyrnes on May 31, 2016 14:20:08 GMT
Here is a place to discuss reading 7
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Lol
