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Post by george on May 12, 2016 0:45:54 GMT
ksbarber I am probably in a different category than most of my classmates in that I am a true proponent of the Phonics method of learning the Alphabet and reading. I started school in first=grade at the age of seven in 1959 in a Catholic Parochial school and we were taught with Phonics. We were taught to "sound out the letters" if we had difficulty with q word. Later when I became the mother of two daughters, the oldest took quickly to the whole-word recognition they were teaching because she pretty much memorized the words with a photographic memory and was able to read books at a young age because she simply memorized what she had heard me say. They placed her in a gifted class by 2nd grade. The second daughter was totally lost, and I went over the phonics method with her myself and tried to help her with spelling, but spelling was very hard for her. So no one method fits all students. Most can get the "whole word recognition" of "cat", "dog" and "the", but the more letters you add to a word, the more valuable knowing how to "sound it out can be".
I also was amazed when reading a TIME Article on line from 1955, Education: Why Johnny Can't Read" to learn that Phonics only came back into fashion in the late 1950s after they had started using whole word recognition in the 1930s and realized it was not working. The quote from the TIME article (Monday, March 14, 1955) opening reads: When Best selling Author Rudolf Flesch (The Art of Plain Talk) offered to give a friend's twelve-year-old son "remedial reading", Flesch discovered that the boy was not slow or maladjusted; he had merely been' exposed to ordinary American school.'"
In another article dated Friday, 11 February, 2011, entitled "Why Johnny STILL Can't Read" by Sam Blumenfeld, he addresses the fact that in the 1930s they there out the alphabetic-phonics method, in which one sounds out words, and replaced it with the new "sight-whole word" or "look-say method. on page two of the article he mentioned a 1944 LIFE Magazine article on the epidemic of dyslexia in American children, and mentions the case of a little girl with an I.Q. of 118 who was examined for Dyslexia. After tests, doctors concluded she needed thyroid treatments, removal of tonsils and adenoids, exercises for eye muscles, but no one suggested trying to teach her using Phonics. So sad hat the school system thinks every student can learn to read the same exact way. ksbarber New Member *
ksbarber After watching the Youtube video of William Brozo on Boys and Literature discussing the slump in achievement and interest in boys from about 4th grade up to High School, I was reminded about some points I have learned in some of my other recent education classes, especially those teaching English as a Second Language. The reading materials used need to be of interest and relevant to the learner. Bozo says the Department of Education's obsession with standards can drive boys further away from an interest in reading. Their range of texts is limited. I think in teaching all students in this age group, phonics is important, but also making the reading and class literacy assignment of interest make a world of difference. Bozo gave an example of a teacher that let kids bring in rap lyrics (cleaned up) and then got to write their own rap lyrics. It was suggested in a video that followed that boys like books that make them laugh and appeal to a sense of adventure. I was introduced to a series of books last summer by my eleven-year-old granddaughter based on the character "Captain Underpants". I had never heard of the books, but I read through the series with her last summer and I see why it made her age group want to read. Allowing that pre-teen to teenage age group read such things as comic books, graphics novels, mythology and even game character backstories, can enhance their interest but also help them learn to read more fluidly.
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Post by george on May 12, 2016 1:07:47 GMT
Did anyone else find the Blumenfeld piece? Thoughts? I love that you found it, Kathy; I've assigned it for a couple of years running. Anybody wind up reading about Ken Goodman and Whole Language?
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Post by bdelisi on May 12, 2016 1:23:28 GMT
The Boys and Literature video with Brozo brought up some points that I found interesting. As a person who did not enjoy engaging in reading during school, I thought that the idea of drawing upon outside interest and connecting them back to literature and reading was a great idea. During my school years, I had to read so many books that I did not find applicable to my life or my interests and it made reading more of a task and not an engaging activity. If more education programs today tried to tie in the text that they may be required to teach into the students interests, I could see progress in literacy would be made for those student who may be unmotivated. Additionally, I did not find that there is a slump in motivation surprising at all. When you look back at elementary and middle school, 4th and 5th grade is when you go from reading fun fiction books that engage imagination to almost all text that only provides information. It's no wonder why kids lose the motivation to engage in reading and literature.
When it came to searching for information about Johnny Can't Read, I seemed to find a lot of articles that were celebrating the books 50th or 60th anniversary. These articles gave some information about how the phonics method that the book was based on is still used today, but most of the information provided was the authors opinion on the technique. I was more interested on facts or data that supports the claims made in the text that phonics is a better method the teach reading that the whole word reading. It makes sense that whole word reading would be more beneficial when trying to understand the meaning of a word, but when it comes to learning how to read, phonics and taking the time to sound out the word in pieces would make it easier to learn new words. The phonics method is what I was taught in school when I was younger and I haven't in my experience see the whole word reading in use. Is this whole word technique outdated or is it still attempted to be taught in school, not only in the U.S. but in other parts of the world as well?
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Post by jamestgardiner on May 12, 2016 1:24:10 GMT
Do you feel like you were taught to learn by phonetics? Or do you feel as though it were more of a whole word type learning? I'm trying to think back to my time learning to read and it feels like phonetics was attempted by my teachers to teach us to learn. However, I feel that in the end we were taught to read by whole words. I have honestly never thought about how I learned to read until now. As an aspiring school psychologist, one question that really pops out to me is regarding our IQ/Achievement testing: If we test children with subtests about phonetics, but do not teach them to read phonetically, why in the world are we testing that ability? Even though the "Why Johnny Can't Read" book brought awareness to the necessity of teaching reading phonetically, I feel that that style has not fully caught on. But, I do not know much about the subject of reading, so I am not exactly sure how the field has changed since that book.
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Post by bdelisi on May 12, 2016 1:35:44 GMT
I tried to do the same thing and look back at if I was taught to read by phonics or looking at whole words. What I can recall is learning to read by phonics and then after a while we tried to read using whole words. Also that is a really good point when it comes to testing. If some kids aren't taught to read by phonics, then it would be unfairly biased to test these kids with phonics subtests. I think we should take that into consideration when testing kids and maybe ask the parents or teachers for information about how the child was taught to read.
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Post by jennie on May 12, 2016 1:50:34 GMT
Yeah I have never really thought about how I learned to read either. I am not really even sure I realized that there are different approaches to acquiring this skill. I can recall pretty distinctly though using phonics and can picture phonics charts in my first grade classroom. In a way I think phonics merges the ideas of whole-word recognition and sounding out certain letters. It teaches us to recognize groups of letters and piece together those sounds.
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Post by jennie on May 12, 2016 1:57:49 GMT
In my elementary school experience we got to choose the books we read which did a great job of providing entry points. This allowed each student to not only read what they were interested in but on their reading level (you were to choose books within a personal range provided from a reading quiz). However this just merely delayed the reading slump until middle school when we no longer had choices. At some point, however, students need to build a stamina to read material they did not choose, but perhaps some aspect of freedom should always be maintained.
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Post by jamestgardiner on May 12, 2016 2:01:03 GMT
I think allowing children to read books they are interested in throughout grade school is important. I have always enjoyed reading, but when it came to reading something in school that was not interesting to me, I gained no benefit from it. Most of the time I did not complete the reading. But, I also think it is hard to find books that strike the interests of the different students while also challenging them to increase their literacy skills.
I also wonder if my desire read stems from my mother pushing me to read as a child. In my environment, it was simply something that one did. But, for some children, reading is not introduced until grade school. I imagine that if I was just learning to read while another peer had already been reading that I would not want to show that I could not read. I feel like I might be embarrassed, which I think is a big part of the reason reading is not popular among boys. I feel like this is also part of the reason some boys are made of fun for reading. The insecurities some boys have with reading might lead to the teasing of boys who can read.
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Post by george on May 12, 2016 2:11:19 GMT
The timeline of reading instruction and assessment has a lot of swings back and forth. Note Bill Brozo's point about the Reading Wars. What else is here? Jennie's point is interesting that she wasn't aware of there being different approaches to reading instruction. Brianne's connection to the assessment questions that can raise... What else? What about the tone? What's not being talked about?
Wait... just saw Caroline's post on the Readings thread: Interesting points--culture, image, discourse, testing, motivation.
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linda
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by linda on May 12, 2016 2:31:05 GMT
Brozo stated that it wasn't important whether the phonic or whole word method was used. He seemed to be making a point about how the way schools have to 'make the grade' has them concentrating on those tasks, causing curriculum to become specific and narrow, limiting text and strategies in teaching. Sort of teaching to tests or expectations instead of being able to creatively solve or assist students with their learning. I learned to read in first grade with phonics, my daughters did as well. The oldest was very frustrated in kindergarten, unable to grasp or decode words, wanting to read. Her teacher believed that children learned to read when they were able to skip. She went from not reading to reading full on, everything. Every child is at a different stage, brings their own experiences to the task-a huge challenge for teachers.
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Post by sarahpiper on May 12, 2016 2:39:46 GMT
Through my little brothers I feel like I have really seen this phenomena of boys having a lack of interest in reading. In my family my sister and I are the oldest and we have two little brothers. Both girls always showed an interest in reading and stories, where as our brothers would always want to wander off to do something more active. The only books that could catch and hold their attention were Captain Underpants, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, and the Lightning Thief series. In the Brozo video he really harped on finding an entry point text. I read almost the exact same thing when I read an article titled Why Johnny Won't Read (School Library Journal, Michael Sullivan, August 1, 2004). Both resources pointed to a need to get boys interested at a young age. From my own observations with my brothers, It is easy to catch the boys attention with a book with any sort of adventure or outlandish plot. The problem is holding on to that interest once it had sparked.
A problem that is pointed out in the Johnny article is that teachers will suggest books that are focused toward a female audience. This puts the idea in students' minds that these more feeling based books are acceptable literature, but action, adventure, and fantasy books are less acceptable. Going back to the idea of entry point texts, these fantasy books can be what sparks an interest in reading for all young students. I still feel like the fantasy lit course that I took in high school was the best class I could possibly take to encourage my desire to read. This was because we were given a choice of books that interested us, instead of being restricted to the necessary, though often dry, greats of literature. I wonder wether the way most summer reading is done, where there is one required book, then a list of books to choose from, would be a good way to encourage reading in the classroom?
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Post by Sarah Navarro on May 12, 2016 3:25:23 GMT
I did the same thing and thought back to how I was taught to read. I remember my mom teaching me with phonics before I started kindergarten and I had picked it up pretty quickly, but can't recall what methods my teachers had used. I feel that teaching through phonics allows students to build off of their knowledge more easily, allowing them to apply what they know about phonics in order to read new and more difficult words. I would think that the whole word method wouldn't be as easily generalized to reading more difficult words, and students would have to rely more heavily on the words they had already been taught. The author of Why Johnny Can't read actually mentions some more information on this in an article that I read. If anyone's interested: www.historyliteracy.org/newsletters/histlit.2005.28.2.pdf
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Post by Jack Bond on May 12, 2016 3:45:57 GMT
I was taught the phonics method - as I feel most of us were to some extent as kids - but then once you got the basics we all learned certain rules better when applied with words; Charlemagne is one you can't simply use with the phonics method, for example, and would just have to learn through experience and repetition. It seems like once we reach 3rd grade we learn - or are expected to learn - via whole words as we should know general phnics such as the 'ch' sound or what have you.
And this is where I think IQ/Achievement testing comes in. Because the expectation is we learn the phonics method as little kids, it's why we have those certain subtests on the DIBELS or whatever that specifically target if we know them. So I think it's combination of the two; we need the basics to have a good ground work of reading, but as with many things experience - by way of the whole word method - teaches nuances and advanced examples/techniques the basics alone can't accomplish.
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Post by leighvand on May 12, 2016 4:04:12 GMT
For one, the song "Johnny Can't Read" by Don Henley I personally find terrible, but it does somehow pick up some interesting themes regarding education. Henley (and his writers) seem to mockingly suggest that the fact that Johnny can't read is no one's fault. So then as a serious question, being an educator, it is our job to teach our students the skills to build upon; reading being one of those. Yet we discussed the Messiah Complex in class Tuesday. So then, at what point is it not the teacher's fault, and so on? Also, Henley's message correlates the lack of literacy to getting in trouble in the law. One line from the song said "Recess is over," and in my mind I'm thinking that Johnny saw high school as a whole as a form of recess. As if he did not gain anything from it other than a good time.
I read the open letter to Johnny's mom (pages 1-12), and Flesch was not considering anyone's feelings when it came to writing this book. KSBARBER: I find it interesting that you learned Phonics while in school and that the education system has now come full circle through the word method back to Phonics. I very vividly remember the massive Phonics chart that hung in my 2nd grade classroom. I feel that my reading has evolved into word recognition because I have practice in the reading these words. That brings me to a part of the chapter where Flesch mentioned that it is natural to learn to read through Phonics and that through repetition a student can't confidence and comfort in the words being used. However with word-method, a student would use repetition to memorize a word. So then is a conflict between learning for memorization's sake and comfort's sake. Last semester, I took a class on Teaching English as a Second Language and there is an idea that how you learn your first language, assists in how you learn a second language. I don't know how much this really pertains to literacy and this course, but while learning a second language (Spanish) knowing phonics really helped because Spanish is such a phonetic-heavy language. I also took note that Flesch mentioned that it is "harder to teach remedial readers because they have [4+] years of guessing." Is guessing considered a formed literacy practice? Or a faux one at that? Like Henley, Flesch also mockingly said that it is never the teacher's fault when it comes to educating students. That it was some other made up something keeping the kid from learning.
I found an NPR article (http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/05/10/476490413/through-the-looking-glass-how-childrens-books-have-grown-up) that was actually published Tuesday morning that talks about the evolution of children's literature. Flesch's book was mentioned in that it was a catalyst in making story time for kids interesting again. This is still an article I am processing in it's underlying meanings, but what if the books being written and read by students stems from the ways we teach literature? Or Vice Versa.
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